Comments on: Annulling conversions?! A serious issue either way

By: Rabbieric

Rabbieric — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:50:46 +0000

This is ultimately not an issue of us-or-them with the Haredi world. Conversion is not a legal fiction to avoid the stigma of intermarriage, a band-aid of sorts. If you do not have in mind to take on the mitzvot, even one rabbinical ordinance, the person isn’t Jewish. It’s a halachic reality and it’s a spiritual reality. You can’t get around it. If you want to make up your own rules and own mitzvot there are lots of other religions you can join. There are rabbis, alledgely Orthodox rabbis, who are using conversions to patch up intermarriages. It may put a Jewish facade on the person but this person is not going to drop all of there non-Jewish trappings. The Gemara says that converts are hard on the Jews like leprosy” It’s harsh but it’s a reality. You have to question why someone would want to actively become Jewish. A person who is willing to undergo the transformation to become Haredi has clearly accepted the yolk of Torah. A woman who’s not willing to give up pants and take one for the team or a guy who’s only going to go to shul on Shabbat because that’s what works with his schedule isn’t getting the message. It’s very easy to cry a river for the poor victims of “Haredi bullying”. But you have to look at the impact on the Jewish community as a whole.

By: mjss26

mjss26 — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:05:14 +0000

Hey DL, 1) tell me about it!, 2) By definition, the Israeli Haredi drive will and does affect the entire Jewish diaspora population – it’s ruling through fear (hence the term haredi, I suppose, although that’s an unfair blanket statement), “if youse wants to live in our neck of the woods, youse aren’t Jewish enough for us”. Rabbi Shlomo Amar, while he recently came down hard on this Sherman guy and had all sorts of haredim saying “ooh Amar, you sided against us? You be in trouble wit’ us now, it done be open season” or words to that effect, he and his government body, whatever it’s called, issued a list of American orthodox rabbis about which they approve. That is, these are the RCA rabbis whose conversions we will honour in Israel. No one else makes the cut. That was an earth-shatteringly unpopular move, encroaching on the authority of rabbis extra-Israel to convert people, sinking the Israeli chief rabbinates tendrils into the largest Jewish community next to its own.
3) It is a can of worms – more non Jewish babies, or more non-Jewish Jews? 4) They are already, as mentioned above, beginning to consider orthodox conversions that they don’t have a direct say in as being suspect, and for the reason you outlined.
4) what is haredi protocol for conversion if not exactly the same as orthodox/modern orthodox? You see, it basically means that you’ll always be jumping through hoops to please them, and just when you think you’re wearing enough sheitels at once, or the correct thickness of stockings, they’ll move the markers again and the whole game will change. You’ll never be able to please them.

By: DL

DL — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:24:30 +0000

Hmm… this is an interesting can of worms to open, bringing to light the edgy co-existence of extreme torah observance and the modern world. (Which of course is funny, because a lot of us ourselves are perceived as ‘too religious’ and not altogether with it…)

But to analyse the article, first, was there any mention whether the High Rabbinical Court will extend their jurisdiction to other countries apart from Israel? It would be interesting to see how they would be able to pull off that one! As is evident, a large majority of conversions today are made due to the husband wanting the kids to be Jewish. The Rabbi’s in Australia are fully aware that a lot of converts will become one time Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashana shul goers, yet they convert them anyway…. A LOT of people won’t be converting if this happens… (But the guys/girls will still intermarry… therefore a lot more non jewish babies!!!!)

Second, the obvious question arises: Which conversions will they consider regulatory? We know reform/conservative conversions are already ill percieved, but will modern orthodox conversion, lfor example, also come into scrutiny? Will all conversions have to undergo strict Chareidi protocol?

Interesting!!!