I reckon we should let G-d worry more about the spiritual purity and integrity of the Jewish people. I might have said this before, but you are playing with a clear d’oraita (Torah-based) law (insulting/paining the convert) for the sake of rabbinic laws of conversion for the dubious aim of maintaining a nebulous but more often than not haredi standard of keeping Judaism (and thus ’spiritual purity’). I have read (only read, to be fair) of conversions being annulled because the woman was found out in pants and with hair uncovered. As far as I’m aware, taking different minhagim and following other opinions is not enough to substantiate considering such action, nor does it necessarily prove, even if the woman was seen to break Shabbat, that in her mind at the time of conversion she was not sincere about keeping the mitzvot.
A friend of mine recently worked through the possibility of a person not actually being a convert if in their mind they never intended to keep the commandments. I would like him to restate it briefly here if he wouldn’t mind. Still I maintained that since we can’t read minds, if the beth din that converts the gentile is convinced that the person is genuine, then the person is converted. The reason why we turn potential converts away is not because of ’spiritual purity’ but out of concern for the individual. Whereas prior to conversion, the gentile is answerable for the 7 categories of law (7 mitzvot Bnei Noah), after conversion, when they pass onto the next world, their actions will be reconciled against the full 613 categories of law. That is the burden. And you know what? If they choose to convert, it’s ultimately up to them. If they take it upon themselves, then they bear the yoke and will have to face the consequences. Revoking conversions creates mamzerim and havoc and schism within the Jewish world; don’t worry about spiritual purity – worry about destroying Jewish life. Placing geirim under the threat of revoking their conversions is 100% without question causing unimaginable psychological pain stress and trauma to the geirim, their children, their children’s children and forever.
You can work more with secular Jews that converted. Unfortunately there’s not very much you can do for mamzerim.
Rabbinate demands haredi control over conversion
Jun. 23, 2009
Matthew Wagner , THE JERUSALEM POST
Since conversion to Judaism can have a negative impact on the spiritual purity of the Jewish people, only the greatest halachic authorities of the haredi rabbinical establishment can decide on this, the Chief Rabbinate’s High Rabbinical Court ruled recently.
“Any decisions by Rabbinical Conversion Courts or rabbinic marriage registrars that are not in accordance with the opinion of the greatest halachic authorities of the generation hurt the purity of Jewish people,” wrote Rabbi Avraham Sherman, head of the High Rabbinical Court.
“There is a real danger that gentiles will be allowed to enter the Jewish community. Anyone who did not embrace an Orthodox lifestyle at the time of conversion is a gentile and if this person is female all of her children are gentiles as well,” Sherman continued.
The High Court also ruled that the high proportion of potential converts to Judaism who are not sincere about embracing Orthodoxy was an insurmountable challenge that made it impossible to rely on any rabbinical conversion court – haredi or modern Orthodox – to perform a kosher conversion.
Sherman stated explicitly that a conversion has no validity unless the convert proves he or she has embraced an Orthodox lifestyle. Anything less is unacceptable.
According to the decision, the Jewishness of converts can in theory be revoked at any time, no matter how long ago the conversion took place and no matter which Rabbinical Conversion Court performed the conversion.
Conversions can and must be revoked if, for instance, after the conversion process the convert admits that he or she did not adhere to the Orthodox halachic restrictions governing Shabbat, kashrut or other Jewish laws.
To preserve the purity of the Jewish people, every convert must be scrutinized on an individual basis by rabbinic marriage registrars and rabbinic courts before he or she is permitted to marry or divorce, Sherman wrote in a 34-page rabbinical opinion handed down within the framework of an appeal case on May 10.
Rabbi David Stav, a senior member of Tzohar Rabbis, an organization of moderate Orthodox Zionist rabbis, called Sherman’s comments scandalous.
“Sherman is committing the biblical sin of insulting the convert,” Stav, who is chief rabbi of Shoham, said on Tuesday. “A group of haredi functionaries are willing to place under suspicion thousands of converts just because they want to wage a political power struggle.
“When [former Chief Ashkenazi] Rabbi Shlomo Goren wanted to annul a conversion the haredi community attacked him, claiming it was impossible. Now they have changed their minds according to political interests.”
Stav was referring to the Langer case in which Goren annulled the conversion of a woman’s husband to prevent her children from being considered mamzerim (the result of an illicit sexual act which bars them from marrying a Jew).
Stav said haredi activists were using the conversion issue to shore up their rabbinical clout vis-à-vis the Orthodox Zionist establishment.
Stav, who serves as the Chief Rabbinate’s marriage registrar in his town, said he accepts all converts converted by a legitimate Rabbinical Conversion Court.
“I do so whether the conversion was performed by the Chief Rabbinate or by a haredi conversion court, although I must say that converts who come out of haredi conversion courts are usually less serious than those converted by the Chief Rabbinate,” he said.
A three-man panel of rabbinical judges made up of Sherman, Rabbi Hagai Izerer and Rabbi Zion Algrabli rejected the halachic principle that a rabbinic court decision, once handed down, was irreversible.
Sherman was responding to a Tel Aviv Rabbinical Court ruling in a divorce case that involved a woman who had converted to Judaism.
The Tel Aviv Rabbinical Court refused to accept claims by the husband that his wife’s conversion was invalid, because, he claimed, the wife had paid a NIS 10,000 bribe to the court that performed her conversion.
The Tel Aviv court ruled instead that it did not have the power to overturn a decision – in this case a conversion – by another court since the underlying assumption is that rabbinical courts know what they are doing.
However, Sherman rejected the Tel Aviv court’s argument despite the fact that it was based on an accepted halachic principle. He ruled that the Jewish status of the woman and her children must be lifted until the Tel Aviv court could ascertain whether the claims against the validity of her conversion could be refuted.
Sherman said in a telephone interview with The Jerusalem Post that there was nothing new in his decision and that he was basing himself on the opinions of this generation’s greatest halachic scholars, both living and deceased.
Sherman quoted from declarations published in recent decades by leading haredi halachic authorities such as Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, considered to be the single most important living halachic decisor for haredi Ashkenazi Jewry. Sherman also quoted deceased authorities such as Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Ohrbach, Rabbi Ya’acov Yisrael Kanyevsky and Rabbi Elazar Menachem Man Shach.
In one declaration, signed by Shach, Kanyevsky, Ohrbach and Elyashiv and dating from the summer of 1984, the rabbis warned that “since there has been a rise in the number of converts who have been accepted as Jews and that it has become known that a large percentage of them had no intention of accepting upon themselves the burden of the commandments at the time of conversion… We are warning that there is a prohibition to accept converts without first being sure that they are interested in accepting upon themselves all the commandments.”
Sherman and the other rabbinical judges in May concluded from this declaration and others that every conversion must be considered suspect, “whether it was performed by the Edah Haredit or some other rabbinic court that is recognized more or recognized less, when a person presents a conversion certificate issued by a rabbinic court and that person’s appearance is far from the appearance of an observant Jew or that person comes from a place that has no observant community.”
Sherman said this was especially true in the case that came before the Tel Aviv Rabbinic Court, which dealt with the Jewishness of the wife and her children.
This article can also be read at http://www.jpost.com /servlet/Satellite?cid=1245184911342&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

Hmm… this is an interesting can of worms to open, bringing to light the edgy co-existence of extreme torah observance and the modern world. (Which of course is funny, because a lot of us ourselves are perceived as ‘too religious’ and not altogether with it…)
But to analyse the article, first, was there any mention whether the High Rabbinical Court will extend their jurisdiction to other countries apart from Israel? It would be interesting to see how they would be able to pull off that one! As is evident, a large majority of conversions today are made due to the husband wanting the kids to be Jewish. The Rabbi’s in Australia are fully aware that a lot of converts will become one time Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashana shul goers, yet they convert them anyway…. A LOT of people won’t be converting if this happens… (But the guys/girls will still intermarry… therefore a lot more non jewish babies!!!!)
Second, the obvious question arises: Which conversions will they consider regulatory? We know reform/conservative conversions are already ill percieved, but will modern orthodox conversion, lfor example, also come into scrutiny? Will all conversions have to undergo strict Chareidi protocol?
Interesting!!!
By: DL on June 30, 2009
at 8:24 pm
Hey DL, 1) tell me about it!, 2) By definition, the Israeli Haredi drive will and does affect the entire Jewish diaspora population – it’s ruling through fear (hence the term haredi, I suppose, although that’s an unfair blanket statement), “if youse wants to live in our neck of the woods, youse aren’t Jewish enough for us”. Rabbi Shlomo Amar, while he recently came down hard on this Sherman guy and had all sorts of haredim saying “ooh Amar, you sided against us? You be in trouble wit’ us now, it done be open season” or words to that effect, he and his government body, whatever it’s called, issued a list of American orthodox rabbis about which they approve. That is, these are the RCA rabbis whose conversions we will honour in Israel. No one else makes the cut. That was an earth-shatteringly unpopular move, encroaching on the authority of rabbis extra-Israel to convert people, sinking the Israeli chief rabbinates tendrils into the largest Jewish community next to its own.
3) It is a can of worms – more non Jewish babies, or more non-Jewish Jews? 4) They are already, as mentioned above, beginning to consider orthodox conversions that they don’t have a direct say in as being suspect, and for the reason you outlined.
4) what is haredi protocol for conversion if not exactly the same as orthodox/modern orthodox? You see, it basically means that you’ll always be jumping through hoops to please them, and just when you think you’re wearing enough sheitels at once, or the correct thickness of stockings, they’ll move the markers again and the whole game will change. You’ll never be able to please them.
By: mjss26 on July 9, 2009
at 1:05 pm
This is ultimately not an issue of us-or-them with the Haredi world. Conversion is not a legal fiction to avoid the stigma of intermarriage, a band-aid of sorts. If you do not have in mind to take on the mitzvot, even one rabbinical ordinance, the person isn’t Jewish. It’s a halachic reality and it’s a spiritual reality. You can’t get around it. If you want to make up your own rules and own mitzvot there are lots of other religions you can join. There are rabbis, alledgely Orthodox rabbis, who are using conversions to patch up intermarriages. It may put a Jewish facade on the person but this person is not going to drop all of there non-Jewish trappings. The Gemara says that converts are hard on the Jews like leprosy” It’s harsh but it’s a reality. You have to question why someone would want to actively become Jewish. A person who is willing to undergo the transformation to become Haredi has clearly accepted the yolk of Torah. A woman who’s not willing to give up pants and take one for the team or a guy who’s only going to go to shul on Shabbat because that’s what works with his schedule isn’t getting the message. It’s very easy to cry a river for the poor victims of “Haredi bullying”. But you have to look at the impact on the Jewish community as a whole.
By: Rabbieric on July 14, 2009
at 12:50 pm